HDTV, an Xbox 360 and the UK
I last updated this properly June 2006.
I recently bought an Xbox 360, which is great and I’ll write about that some other time. But I wanted to take advantage of its HD output. This has led me down a path that required a crazy amount of research that I choose to write up here for future reference.
Resolutions
The common HD signals are 720p, 1080i, 1080p. The initial digits represents the number of horizontal lines, the i or p refers to whether the signal transmits interlaced, or all-at-once, which is called progressive. Interlacing is where the lines come alternately, so the first pass is the even lines, the next pass is the odd lines, it is then up to the display to combine these lines so that people can’t tell. Even with a good signal processor you can often see the interlacing effect in moments of high-speed motion, or with certain screen patterns, eg TV presenters never wear checked shirts because of the fuzzy effect this causes with PAL’s 570i signal.
The Xbox supports 720p, 1080i and 1080p. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that if the game supports 1080p it will not have great graphics. Consoles still aren’t powerful enough to create rendered scenes at 1920×1080 by 60fps.
1080i is widely considered to be a “step-down” from 720p as you get interlacing artefacts again. It was probably introduced in order that manufactures could sell “better” than 720p resolutions without having to invest in technology to increase the video bandwidth between input and output. Also if you get a 1080i capable screen it probably means 720p outputs will suffer due to scaling of the image, although this is only true for fixed pixel systems, ie LCD and Plasma.
The Xbox 360 can also do 480p which is better than the general “standard definition” you get from the BBC and normal DVD players because that is either 480i (DVD) or 576i (BBC, etc.), not many TVs support this though. If you get an HDTV, the bonus is you’ll get better DVD playback, provided your DVD player can output to a "p" resolution.
Screen Types
CRT, LCD or Plasma? You can’t buy HDTVs that are cathode-ray-tube in the UK (update see below for amendment), so scratch that. Which is a pity as CRT is a proven technology that is cheap. Although CRTs are also huge and heavy, so in a way I was grateful to not have to chose between them and flat-panels. LCD and Plasma both do HD resolutions and are expensive. Plasmas are cheaper, but only come at sizes larger than 37 inches. LCDs can’t do black well, and for games and DVD this sucks, a lot. I can’t recommend LCD at all because of this. So Plasma is really the only choice, and you’re going to spend at least a thousand pounds. However most plasmas have non-widescreen resolutions (1024×768), although they still have widescreen aspect ratios, thus the pixels are rectangular, and for games where you have to read text often, this sucks. Plasma screens use a lot of power. Much more than LCD and somewhat more than CRT too. CRTs have a maximum size of something like 42 inches, but you wouldn’t want a CRT this size anyway as they would take up most of your room.
1080i and 1080p screens are rare. This is good — you don’t want them — as described above. They are becoming more common though, but I don’t recommend them as you end up with 720p outputs getting scaled.
There are also DLP screens. DLP do great blacks too. Probably better than even new generation plasma. I don’t know much about DLPs, but I think they are the most expensive option.
Connection Types
There are so many connection cable types, it rocked my world, in a bad way though naturally. The 360 (premium) comes with a component cable, this is the default way to get HD to your display as far as I can tell. Component is not equal to Composite! Component cables seem to be called lots of different things too, like RGBHV, or RGB Component, et al. Which is so great that people do that.
You can also get an HD signal through Firewire (not common), DVI-D (like LCD monitors, not common), PC VGA (CRT monitors) and HDMI.
The future is HDMI, but good luck finding a mid-range HDTV with HDMI inputs. Component seems to be on all of them though. However Component is an analog signal. How much this matters I am not sure. The 360 doesn’t yet come with any options for HDMI output, but they will, soon I’m led to believe.
However HDMI sounds like a headache for the consumer, check this discussion out. Also the 360 doesn’t have a HDMI output so you don’t need one until you get a PS3 or a HD-DVD player.
What I’m doing
I decided to get the VGA AV HD cable and use my 22″ CRT computer monitor and wait for the 360 HDMI cable and a 42″ plasma with a “true HD” resolution of 1360×768. Current Plasma that are good for blacks and in my price range don’t do the extra widescreen resolution that I feel I must have for good HD gaming, so until then I’ll get 1360×768 resolution via my monitor.
The plasma screen I was going to get was the Panasonic TH-42PHD, which was reviewed very well all over the web. You could buy an HDMI input for it, it had no tuner, so no normal TV, but you can pick up Freeview or analog tuners on ebay for 20 quid. The only reason I didn’t buy it was the reduced horizontal resolution. I’ll wait and see what Panasonic’s ninth generation plasma displays, due out in autumn, are like.
Update - 1 week later
I have 360 with my 22″ monitor at 1280×1024. The games look good and work well without a framerate loss (well probably, it’s hard to tell if framerate drops in action scenes would have happened at standard definition or not). However TVs render games better I conclude, it’s something about the way they scale the images, or something. Or the pixels on TVs are more fuzzy. On the monitor it feels like PC gaming. I’m gunna get a plasma soon I think. But anyway my conclusion is I prefer gaming with the monitor relative to my crappy SD TV, but it isn’t exactly what I was expecting.
Update - 01-Aug-2006
People in the comments have pointed out that Samsung sell some slimfit CRT HDTVs. This could be the best of all worlds as you get decent standard definition display, decent HD display, good blacks, a cheap price and all using proven and well tuned technology with a long track-record.
Unfortunately the slim-fit nature of the display introduces focus and geometry issues. Read all about it here. Reading most of that 93 page thread, it seems many people get good sets that can be tweaked to remove the majority of the geometry issues. And after a few days use the set “settles” and performs better. I’m going to try and get a real look at one of these in the near future at my local Comet. The geometry issues may even be acceptable in most cases as you only notice when watching something that shows straight lines.
The sets are WS32Z409 (cheaper, analog tuner) and WS32Z419 (digital tuner, ie freeview).
Update - 04-Dec-2006
I eventually got a 32″ LCD, the Samsung, I reviewed it. My running impression is mild disapointment. Upscaling sucks. Blacks on LCDs suck. It’s a good set though, but I wish I’d got a CRT.
Can the new Xbox 360 replace my HTPC?
I was just reading another similar thread dated back in May but since we’re days away from the launch of the Xbox 360 I have to ask myself : “Can the Xbox 360 completely replace my HTPC?”.
Here’s my setup:
I have one media server that contains all of my DVD movie content and it also runs MCE 2005. This server feeds, via a gigabit lan, all movie content to another MCE 2005 machine setup in my HT. That machine in turns is used purely for outputting video to my Sanyo projector AND recording/playback HDTV.
Here’s my theoretical setup with an Xbox 360:
Same media server but now it’s connected directly to the Xbox 360. I take the HDTV tuner card out of the “main” MCE machine and put it in my media server. Now the media server is a video server AND video recorder. Movies AND recorded TV is now playable on the Xbox 360. Therefore, my main MCE machine that I have poured countless hours of blood, sweat and money into is now completely defunct. I don’t use the main machine for surfing the web, I use it just for video and Tv recording/playback. The bonus addition with this route is I can now play games too. The only thing I’m missing is “My Movies” (maybe possible if using the Xbox as an extender?) and Live Tv (possibly streamed from the media server?)
Possible?
xnxx June 16th, 2006 at 18:31I don’t think you can, eg, surf the net with the 360. Also, it can stream music from Windows MCE, but it can’t stream to other computers, so it isn’t really a media-center.
So I think you’ll not be replacing your home-theater PC anytime soon…
Max Howell June 19th, 2006 at 9:40I bought a Hitachi 42″ Plasma TV costing £1500 last year but decided not to invest the extra £1000 to get it HD compatible instead deciding I could save the extra cash and wait a while then buy another HD ready tv. The picture quality is still very good with my 360 but I really wanted to purchase a HD ready TV to bring out the best in my xbox. After searching around on the net and in the shops I came across the Samsung WS32Z419D 32″ HD ready slim tv. This super stylish traditional TV from Samsung is not only HD Ready including an HDMI connection with 100Hz picture frequency, but also has a built-in digital receiver allowing you to receive up to 32 free-to-view channels and comes complete with matching floor stand for only £499. A fraction of the price for an equivelent plasma or LCD tv.
Jamie Lewis June 19th, 2006 at 22:31I have got a 360 and am desperate to get a new HD tv to get the max from it. I have been using it with a 20inch samsung lcd, quite old so the picture quality is poor. The new samsungs look ace, im thinking getting this one, a lot of money but worth it if it’s half as good as the samsung lcds that are on the demo stands.
Aaron June 22nd, 2006 at 16:18Yeah the Samsungs on the demo stands look great. I think MS must have done some deal as every demo stand has one. They are plain displays though, not TVs (ie. no tuners).
I noticed they were poor for blacks with King kong though, making it hard to play the game really.
Max Howell June 23rd, 2006 at 11:31to Jamie Lewis
the reason the samsung tv u mention u have is so cheap is because it does not support 720p which is what all 360 games run at. Therefore you are playing your 360 games at 460 which is no better than a normal tv.
You obviously bought it without checking all its cappabilities first
Dub July 23rd, 2006 at 20:37to Dub
This set does do 720p along with 1080i… as stated in the specs on samsungs site, and by the hordes of people at http://www.avforums.com who have purchased them already.
Mike July 28th, 2006 at 15:33Max Howell,
Yes Microsoft struck a deal with Samsung to have them HD READY 26″ Samsungs on there Xbox 360 game pods. You can find the model number on the internet for them exact same HD READY LCD TV’s, xbox 360 forums being a place to start or even easier go into a GAME shop where there is a 360 gaming pod then get the model number of the back.
Them xbox 360 gaming pod samsungs, and many other samsungs have a special feature called GAMING MODE on them which was designed on behalf of microsoft for the exact reason you mentioned above, LCD’s poor on blacks so if it looked bad on a samsung with GAMING MODE on then chances are the blacks will look worse on another make HD LCD.
Even the xbox 360 game developers are given them gaming pod samsungs to make the 360 games,
When microsoft struck the deal with samsung they advertised samsung on the microsoft owned Perfect Dark Zero Xbox 360 game, look in top right corner of the game menus where it clearly has the Samsung logo in top right corner.
I was gonna get one of those 26″ samsung HD READY LCD gaming pod tv, but to fully enjoy the benefits of High Definition, HD is best viewed of a 32″ or bigger HD READY tv, so now im waiting to get a Samsung 32″ HD Ready LCD which must have the GAMING MODE feature as the HD TV will mainly be used with the xbox 360 in HD.
Useful Xbox 360 links,
I will probably not reply to this anymore as i just came across this page, but im normally on xbox.com forums where you will find out tons of stuff regarding Xbox 360 and HD.
Wils35 July 31st, 2006 at 19:49im using a toshiba 32wl66 lcd tv and have tried settings of 720p and 1080i but cant really see any difference at all ,
do you think the best settings would be 720 or 1080 on the xbox360
gamer October 3rd, 2006 at 18:52thanks
1080i is generally considered worse than 720p, especially for your screen since its physical pixel resolution is designed for 720p.
Max Howell October 5th, 2006 at 16:44I’ve noticed on some of the blurb that these samsungs (esp the r73/r74 range only run at 50hz
anyone know if this is true? i want to use mainly for my xbox360
notibly on the samsung website - they give you every spec detail apart from frame rates
Shaun October 16th, 2006 at 17:44Hi, I am thinking of buying an xbox 360, but I don’t have a HD TV. Are the graphics still good with just a standard 21″ TV. Thanks
Anonymous October 18th, 2006 at 19:03The way to think about it is, normal TV looks more realistic than any game, and it’s standard definition. HD is totally unrequired for good graphics.
Max Howell October 19th, 2006 at 9:58Hi, will my Tiscali broadband provider work on the xbox 360 live service. Also, does anyone know which original xbox games work on the new xbox 360.
Alex October 29th, 2006 at 10:13Thanks.
The Xbox 360 now supports 1080p. Go here to find details on installing a patch:
http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/community/news/systemupdate.htm
Chris November 23rd, 2006 at 16:23Good article. It’s been a minefield trying to figure out the best HDTV to get…
Here are a few things that you should make note of…
a) the 1080 or 720 refers to the horizontal lines not the vertical.
b) The reason why you might not notice the difference between 720p and 1080i when you switch it over is because every TV has a native resolution. This is the resolution it was built to display. So if you switch your 360 over to 1080i but are playing on a 720p screen then you won’t notice the difference. If you play 1080i mode on a 1080i native screen then you will.
c) LCDs do display blacks very well. Bear in mind that when you buy a TV it is set to the factory default settings. This is basically as bright and high contrast as possible. You need to calibrate your TV for the room you are playing in so that it works well under your light conditions. Youc an buy DVDs that take you through the process or search for HDTV Calibration on google.
d) This goes hand in hand with point c… when buying a HDTV one of the most important things to look out for is the contrast ratio, this basically lets you know how the TV deals with the blackest blacks and the whitest whites. They are displayed like this 3000:1. The higher the number the better… but this figure also works hand in hand with the luminosity rating. You really need to see the TV in action to get a feel for this.
Good luck finding the right screen.
Alex H December 4th, 2006 at 11:35Thanks I corrected the horizontal/vertical.
I couldn’t figure out where to insert b, so people can read it here. Also b is actually only true of fixed pixel displays. CRTs just alter the number of scanlines they are displaying, so all resolutions are “native”.
I bought a pretty good LCD, and the blacks suck. I also looked at a lot of screens, and chose this one because user reviews online and off said how great the blacks were. So I disagree that LCDs do blacks very well. I think they are shit for blacks.
My screen is the Samsung LE32R74, contrast ratio is 800:1 I think, I can’t remember though - Samsung don’t quote it, they only quote the dynamic ratio which is some bullshit. You can turn down the backlight to improve the blackness of the blacks, but this lowers the overall brightness of the image too significantly, which as far as I’m concerned just proves LCD technology is teh crap.
I might try the calibration you suggest though as I’m not one to not try things. If I can be arsed. I’m not too fussed about the blacks anymore.
Max Howell December 6th, 2006 at 13:24i don’t get all the fuss… just get a dlp projector
muesli April 11th, 2007 at 3:06I have a Samsung SP43H3HT rear projection TV. I’ve plugged in my Xbox 360 and set it to all the HDTV settings, but when I turn my console over to 1080i it just flashes up “out of range”
wayne h July 13th, 2007 at 18:09What am I doing wrong?
i have recently bought a viewsonic VX2255WM 22″ LCD display it looks great and when running it with my pc it looks awsome, my only query is can i run my 360 premium through dvi-d and if it does work will it look any good?
Dec October 18th, 2007 at 3:24please remember to change the settings on the 360 console, a friend of mine complained that his 1366 x 768 LCD monitor looked bad, he had it set up for 800 x 600, and hadn’t applied the enhanced feature.
Boycee April 5th, 2008 at 10:14I am using my Hanns g HW191D pc monitor with a VGA lead for the 360, it works very well, some back-compatible games won’t work though, you do need composite cabling for them for some reason, apparently the VGA lead is the best option for HD on the pre-HDMI consoles.
I ust got a lcd tv for a gift, and i dont think he blacks suck? I dont get what u mea by that.?
Y,Y June 8th, 2008 at 23:42