That Search Bar Issue
The yet unreleased Internet Explorer 7 has a searchbar like Firefox, Opera and Konqi do. It defaults to Microsoft’s own search engine. Google dislike this and claim MS should ask the user to choose, but MS have declined saying shoving a dialog at people would just confuse people. I agree it would be irritating, modal dialogs interrupt a user’s work process, and new browsers already shove tens of these dialogs at you (”This is an insecure webform, yada yada”). But how about the first time the user uses the search bar it opens up a webpage which shows the following options:
This seems fair and usable to me.
With regards to the politics of Google’s complaint, I must say I’m surprised how anti-Google the online world seems to be about this issue. Even Ars-technica who usually write what I’m thinking, write:
Sorry Google, this complaint rings hollow.
But I agree with Google, it is anti-competitive. Yes, Firefox and Opera have Google as the default in their search bar, but this doesn’t make it hypocritical for Google to begrudge the Internet Explorer default because:
- Google don’t make their own browser
- Google don’t ship their own browser as the default browser with their monopolistic* operating system.
- Google could be displaced as the default search engine in Firefox and Opera.
Point 3 is one I’ve seen nobody else make, Google are the default in Opera because they paid for the priviledge. They are the default in Firefox because they sponsor Firefox developers and provide product placement/free advertising. They are the default in Konqi because Konqi developers picked what they considered the best search service. MSN-search could displace Google in all these products. But how could Google ever be the default in IE? They can’t because Microsoft are using their dominance in the browser market to promote their search engine, and there’s no business or technological method Google could use to be considered instead.
However you want to look at it, stuff like this is anti-consumer/anti-competitive/anti-you-and-me. Companies like Microsoft need to be legally restricted in what they can do, or other companies, even search-giants like Google, have too hard a job to step in and make the computing industry more interesting. And situations like this one make it too easy for MS to erode other search-engine’s market share without actually having to produce anything superior or innovative. What percentage of IE users will change the search engine default if they don’t actually have to make an explicit choice? Very few IMO, and that’s what scares Google and Yahoo! too.
Don’t you agree?
* Microsoft fit the wikipedia definition of Monopoly even if they don’t have a 100% market share and even though people can choose not to use Windows.
Codeine
Because I feel I should say something about KDE, I almost have Codeine 1.0.1 ready. I’ve fixed all the bugs I’ve been told about, and improved DVD support somewhat. Get your bug reports in today if you have anything else that needs fixing! I’ll release before the weekend.
I am yet to think I would actually use IE 7, but I am sure that they defaulting to MSN won’t hurt me and won’t make me actually use MSN, I actually think they are in their right to do so. Firefox does lead to google. It is its default home page after all.
aaah, codeine
its really great, and tough i think it could use very simple playlist support, it should make it to default KDE video (!) player…
and i agree with your opinion about IE 7. this is exactly why it is wrong not to do something about M$ power. many ppl say it is ‘just how capitalism works, it leads to monopoly’s’. well, that’s utter bull, as economists don’t consider a monopoly a good outcome in a market - and they actually say the government should intervene if a monopoly is forming. capitalism is dependend on control from a government, to prevent things leading to a monopoly, like price deals and other anti-competitive behaviour.
Microsoft’s monopoly clearly shows the current anti-unfair-competition-laws are failing, or have failed. and these laws continue to fail, as they are not up to the task of preventing the HUGE multinationals from misbehaviour.
our economic laws need some redesign, but these big multinationals can buy any politician they want - so it won’t happen.
yeah, sux…
@vexorian: the point made is - google pays for firefox, ppl choose to use it, and G gets users. google pays opera, ppl choose opera, and G gets users.
but google can’t pay microsoft, and windows users don’t choose IE - most simply keep it as default. that’s different, and bad. windows should come without browser, or with several - not with one, defaulting to MSN search.
* Headphone 0.1 * KWlan 0.4.1 * KPDFTool 0.22 * abc2midi converter service menu 0.01 * KAlgebra 0.5 * gambas 1.0.16 Update: 05/03 06:00 by appy Planet Developer *Max Howell: Google Vs. MSN-Search - That Search Bar Issue
KDE Dot News May 3rd, 2006 at 13:43The other point that ars seems to miss is that the rules are different for a monopoly. If MS were not a monopoly, then of course they could do whatever they like with their browser search bar. However, they *are* a monopoly, which makes it illegal for them to leverage their monopoly status to kill off competition.
How difficult is it to switch the “search-engine” in konqui? It’s pretty hard, because there is no yahoo, msn or ask predefined as web-shortcut. This should be changed pretty soon…
What’s to discuss? Microsoft is a *CONVICTED* monopoly in the US (and France, and other places, I think?). Moreover, it has failed to cooperate, even after conviction: it hasn’t yet undone the practices it was convicted for, and it’s now being tried as a monopoly in Korea and the EU as well. They should have ordered the break-up, and been done with it. But no; they didn’t want to ‘hurt’ an organisation, so instead, citizens of their countries and states are hurting.
On changing the search engine in konqueror… it’s actually very easy, and, at least on debian-based distros, konqueror DOES come with yahoo etc. pre-defined. I for one dislike those search bars though; KDE’s “alt-f2 gg:keywords” approach (or typing a webshortcut like gg:keywords into konqueror’s address bar) is a much nicer way to find stuff quickly, with much more flexibility. Konqueror is the only browser I know of that enhances BOTH by integrating the two systems, and giving you a full choice of which to use.
Isn’t the search box patented? If so, who owns the patent? Even if patents are sh*t, it would be nice to give MS some of their own medicine with this.
I hope Micro$oft lose their antitrust ruling in the EU. The damage use of it’s dominance is having on the global software industry is devastating.
Of course Windows has to come with a browser. Yes the browser has to have a built in search bar and tabbed browsing and a massive selection of skins but it will be less attractive if they have no choice in what search engine is default.
I doubt they will have a massive selection of skins either…. I can also imagine IE 7 wreaking havoc with Internet Service Provider gui browsers and other aspects of the dreaded registry regarding plugins etc. A real nightmare roll out for all those working on IT helpdesks.
@Stephen MIcrosoft has lost. Now they are appealing and in the meantime the EU is threatening fines because MS has resorted to stall tactics while waiting for things to blow over. Also about the IT helpdesk guys… so what. This is what they get _paid_ for.
@Lee Very easy? No. It’s possible, but certainly not very easy.
@superstoned Google _can_ pay microsoft. They just choose not to. And if windows should come without a browser, then OS X should too right? And all the linux distros?
@illogic-al
I’m willing to bet you my salary Google would pay MS to be the default in IE if they could. There’s no way in hell MS would offer them a price that anyone could afford.
Actually you can choose the default in IE7 too, so if google win this time, it would be fair that firefox, opera, safari, konqueror… does ask the question too.
@anonymous
FFS, it’s as though you didn’t read anything I wrote.
Usually in big-company dealings with Microsoft it’s just a matter of whispering the magic word, “anti-trust”, long and loud enough that they’re convinced that you might actually take it to court. In the US with the current administration the threat isn’t as strong as it has been in the past (but a trial could easily be slated to run into 2008), but this is one that they could definitely get spanked for in the EU.
I tried to mail you about Codeine a few months ago, but I don’t know if you received my mail, so here are the bugs I found:
*About the Menu Toggle button: it changes when you push it. But when you exit the menu (by selecting one of its items), the button doesn’t change. So, the change in the aspect of the button is useless, because it can be toggled or untoggled in any situation. I think the button should be automatically untoggled when the user exits the menu.
*Also, it seems the “record” button is buggy. When I push it, the console says: input_rip: error opening file /home/mxcl/Desktop/ (and it says the file doesn’t exist, maybe because my user is not mxcl :-)). Also, there’s a
message (in codeine) saying “saving file to ~/Pelicula” and playback stops. Then I push the “play” button and the “Play Media” window pops up.
*The “Media Information” window is much bigger than the screen (1024×768 resolution).
*Opening a VCD shows a window saying: “There is no input plugin that can read: .” Console says: “xine: cannot find input plugin for MRL [vcd:/]“. But Xine-ui works fine!
*Right click when paused tells the user that the “space” shortcut will resume the playback. But while playing a file, there’s no such indication that “space” will pause the playback.
*The README says “See the section PLANNED FEATURES below”, but there’s no such section :-).
And some random comments/thoughts:
*I’ve seen you said: “xine supports OGM, but I believe that OGM is just a container that supports any codec. xine probably supports MKV as well. Basically, it depends on xine-lib.”
Well, I’ve tested some OGM and MKV files. Codeine seems to work fine with multiple audio/subtile OGM streams (just as it does with DVDs), but seems to _sometimes_ have problems with Matroska subtitles (xine-ui works fine).
For example, with this sample, the subtitles entry is disabled:
http://www.matroska.org/samples/matrix/Matrix.Reloaded.Trailer-640×346-XviD-1.0beta2-HE_AAC_subtitled.mkv
Of course, chapters won’t work, as they don’t work in DVDs (I know it’s planned for 1.1).
*Same shortcut for record and for menu toggle is quite weird IMHO.
*”Reset video scale” option doesn’t exist in fullscreen mode. Also, the ‘=’ shortcut doesn’t work. Is there a reason for it?
Thanks!
Thanks for the report Javi, I’ll try to address those issues tonight, thus 1.0.1 is further delayed heh
The DVD button one is tricky to fix, as xine doesn’t tell me about DVD navigation, hence the bug, which I meant to try to fix, but alas, lack inspiration yet. The rest are excellent reports that I will try hard to ammend.
As much as I hate M$, I can’t agree with all this anti-trust propaganda. I believe that M$ too has a right to choose what goes in their software and what doesn’t. One can’t be free by stealing freedom from somebody else.
The best way out is to vote with your money. Or spread information about what’s wrong with IE/MSN Search/Windows. Legal restrictions are just not in the right spirit of the Free Movement, IMO.
I spose I don’t believe in absolute freedom. I can’t help but think that too much power must come with restrictions.
But yes, in a 100% free society MS is at liberty to do what they like. However we don’t allow petty theft, and we shouldn’t allow companies with huge market share to use that market share to give them an uncompetitive advantage in new markets.
This is disingenious, one man cannot have the same effect as a huge corporation like MS. Even through word-of-mouth protest I could not hope to change this particular issue in time. This is why it necessary for our legal systems to have power to prevent such things.
Anyway your method implies people will agree with me. People won’t. People don’t know what’s best for them generally, if they did we wouldn’t need a Government, anarchy would work.
To fix ie6 I used this web page http://www.google.com/options/defaults.html
Half way down there is a ‘Make Google your default Search Engine’ section.
You have to download a registry file and run it (its a registry hack)
It does the job nicely though.
Just hope you can do the same in ie7 !!
Anyone know if it will be possible ?
Maybe we should just send this link to everyone we know, and advertise it on forums !, if enough people use it then hopefully Microsoft will wake up and smell the coffee !!!