Confusing sexism and truth
It is not sexist to imply women are different to men when the difference under discussion is fact, eg:
Women know more about jewelry than men.
In case I haven’t been clear, this is not a sexist comment! Most people will agree women know more about jewelry than men, you can argue this is because society is sexist. Personally I think it’s because women are more interested in looking attractive than men. Call me sexist if you will, but it’d be ironic to imply that in this thread 
Women get upset all the time about trivial things.
This is not necessarily sexist, there is plenty of scientific evidence that shows women tend to respond with greater emotion than men with regard to certain issues. However it is generalising in a fashion that most people would consider insulting. To state the above is a faux pax, but not sexist.
Women should do all the cooking.
The attitude is sexist, although the comment itself is not.
I hate women.
This is sexist.
Anyway my main point was; our differences are fascinating, the modern opinion that pointing out any difference between the sexes is being sexist is proposterous. But maybe I’m just being pedantic.
Interesting – I like your points.
Sexism is defined as
1) Attitudes, conditions or behaviours that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.
2) Discrimination based on gender
Although you say that stereotyping isn’t sexist (which is in contradiction to the definition) what i think you mean is that stereotyping and sexism isn’t always bad.
e.g. women are better at breast-feeding than men
This is sexist because it is a stereotype, but it is also undeniably true and no-one in their right minds would get offended by it. Nor would men be offended by being refused a medicine because it had unpleasant side effects in men but not in women, which is sexism under definition 2.
Also few people would have problems with the following sexist comment:
“men are stronger than women”
Everyone accepts that in general, on average, stereotypically etc. that this is true. However, the problem comes when people stop treating these comments as the generalisations that they are and start saying that “all men are stronger than all women.” If they then refuse to employ any woman, regardless of individual strength, even though there are many women who are stronger than many men, then this is sexism gone wrong.
Bad sexism should be discouraged obviously, but suppression of all sexism can do more harm than good.
For example, at a nature reserve where i previously worked, every week some teenagers from a local school came along for half a day to help out with practical work on the reserve. They were all rowdy and disruptive at school and were low achievers. Most of the boys got really stuck into the practical tasks we gave them, they gained a sense of achievement and this was apparently noticeable back at school.
Most of the girls hated the physical work and getting dirty and showed no improvement over time. When i suggested that we gave the students the option of some more female-type tasks that were more suited to the skills and interests of the girls i was told i was being sexist, which admittedly was true, but not necessarily sexist in a bad way. However as a result, more of the boys benefited from the scheme than the girls did, which was unfair.
In conclusion: unfair discrimination based on stereotyping is bad, but we should not lose sight of the fact that there are differences between men and women in general and it can be just as unfair to ignore this.
Steph June 1st, 2006 at 14:30@Steph
Good points.
I too believe that men and women are “equal”, not necessarily “same”. The sexes have evolved differently, as they serve different biological functions.
It is best to create equal opportunities, and not just the same opportunities, as you illustrate with your example.
.pharaoh. June 6th, 2006 at 17:33The best example of that is with bathrooms. If you make men & womens bathrooms the same size you are discriminating against women. TV Nation had a piece where they went around with portapotties for women to various large public venues to enact bathroom equality.
I would argue that “Women get upset all the time about trivial things.” is sexist since it promotes that stereotype and its unrealistic to think that someone will believe in a stereotype without applying it to individuals. Where it certainly isn’t always true.
Anyways… I’m only posting on old blogs since for some reason Akregator marked a few as being unread.
Ian Monroe July 15th, 2006 at 22:24You are right, it is sexist. As Steph pointed out I was confusing “sexism” and “sexism being always bad”.
And you are right that promoting stereotypes is usually going to cause damage. Although I still argue that we’d all be better off if people just understood the differences between the sexes. Unfortunately I spose most people aren’t willing to take the time to understand, or perhaps are just too immature to take it seriously.
Max Howell July 17th, 2006 at 10:13One thing I find tiresome about the sexism debate is the inevitable comparison with men followed by the invitable denigration. Women inevitably will have an uphill struggle to compete with men in many areas. Nature and the “selfish gene” militate against them but it would be a major achievement to celebrate female success for its own sake.
Dave G July 31st, 2006 at 9:58As for the Jewellery debate, I believe that the industry is more male-dominated (horrible phrase!) than most. I do not think there are many women involved in mining, metalwork, diamond-cutting, etc.
I am doing an R.M.E leaflet on sexism and this article helped me a lot ! Originally I had thought all men were sexist…. I think I was rather niave ! you have changed my whole oulook on life ! ( I am also rather exagerative… and saying rather a lot!
) Anyway’s thank – you !!!
Hannah February 26th, 2007 at 21:02i believe that women can do the same as men and men can do the same as women..its just up to who wants to put there mind to wat. you can do anything if you put your mind to it and try hard.
niki June 7th, 2007 at 12:57“Women get upset all the time about trivial things.”
“This is not necessarily sexist, there is plenty of scientific evidence that shows women tend to respond with greater emotion than men with regard to certain issues. However it is generalising in a fashion that most people would consider insulting. To state the above is a faux pax, but not sexist.”
Who defines what is trivial and what is meaningful? There is the imput of common sense, of course, but can we not say that in most (or some) cases, it is men who label these things as trivial? SOME PEOPLE get upset over things that are silly to other people, but it is simply a generalization to say that it is only women, all the time. “[Some] Women tend to respond with greater emotion than men with regard to certain issues.” Yes, if this were to have been the comment, it would not be sexist. And, if we are to say that some women get upset over trivial things, can we not just say then, that *some people* get upset over trivial things? Surely it is not only women who get upset over dumb things.
“Women should do all the cooking.”
“The attitude is sexist, although the comment itself is not.”
The above reasoning is erroneous. The comment not sexist? In what sense? Women. Should. Do. All. The. Cooking. It is the comment that is sexist. The tone with which it is said is inconsequential, for the meaning is clear.
Do not think of me as a feminist. Rather, a person arguing a point. Who I am is of no importance, and if it is, wonder why.
Megan December 1st, 2007 at 17:22Any generalization based on sex is sexist. Just as any generalization based on race is racist.
The last example is mysogenistic.
Amy August 27th, 2008 at 6:05wow. that stuff is sexist. my stepmom cant cook anything. my dad does all the cooking
Allyssa September 11th, 2008 at 15:40I AM A GUY AND THERE ARE GIRLS IN MY SCHOOL STRONGER THEN ME (I AM THE STRONGEST GUY IN MY SCHOOL, SO ENOUGH WITH THE “GUYS ARE STRONGER” CRAP, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE A COMPLETLY RETARDED IDIOTIC, STUPID, IDIOT TO THINK THAT, SO SHUT YOU MOUTH “STEPH”
Sam February 7th, 2009 at 2:37I AM A GIRL AND TO ME, NOTHING FEELS BETTER THEN SOME MUD ON MY FACE, AND DIRT EVERYWHERE ELSE, SO SHUT UP WITH THAT STUPID STORY “STEPH” I AGREE WITH SAM!
Samantha February 7th, 2009 at 2:41Like seriously Sam, I have no sympathy for people who won’t even try to think outside the box and instead just do what is typical and get upset and emotional at the injustice of it all. Stop pretending to be both a girl and a boy and grow up.
Max Howell February 8th, 2009 at 20:51I am afraid, and it is very unfortunate, that you are a complete idiot. Sexism in not inherent in all things said of women; yet the examples you give and your “reasonings” are quite ridiculous, as are those who agree with them. To find distinction between sexism and non-sexism one uses commen sense, which is entirely lacking in your article.
To prove my rude points, I’ll give an example:
“Women get upset over trivial things.”
You said: That’s true, but remember kids, not *all* women are foolish crying babies.
Oh, yes, thank you for clearing that up! All sexism has now been eradicated, yay! Give me a break. The key word is ‘trivial’. Which is, by it’s very definition, demeaning. And you go on to explain how this is true by way of psuedo-science. If the comment had been “Some women appeal more to emotion” that would have been more reasonable.
As it is, your article is only the reflection of a poor and unconsciously gender-biased mind.
PS: “I hate women” is a comment you find almost no one ever say in real life. Great help it did to make it clear that “I hate women” means “I hate women”.
Megan May 2nd, 2009 at 22:48One day I suddenly thought “hmm, often people say things are sexist, but well, those things are still true”.
I then wrote a blog post about it.
Years later Google funnels me a lot of traffic and thus the mostly-thick hordes of the Internet suddenly appear, choose to not read with any sympathy and then brain-fart their poorly formulated opinions into the comments.
I’m not thrilled about being called a sexist-idiot by know-nothings, but I accept that this is what happens on the Internet nowadays. It’s not true you see. I’m not sexist. I’m just interested in these topics.
I did make the mistake of publishing a blog article without writing it very well though Megan. And I apologise for this. I’d like to think people wouldn’t crucify me for it though
Max Howell May 3rd, 2009 at 12:59okayy. i agree that men and women are not the same. But im a girl and i love dirt and outdoors stuff. And not all guys enjoy dirt or outdoors stuff either. In general guys are stronger than girls but once again not all. I think that people shouldn’t just think that all guys are one way or all girls are one way. I’m guilty of saying all guys are jerks and cheaters i admit but even when i say it i’m not saying EVERY guy on the planet is. But like i said people should just not stereotype girls or guys. Just look at the individual. My boyfriend just commented to me today that he’s the man in the relationship so he rules. Guess what you will NEVER get anywhere in life thinking this guys. I told him to go back about a hundred or so years or go to some other country if he wants that. I told him i have a brain to think and act on my own. EVERYONE DOES!!! and he said no. Well i find it funny i get much much better grades in school than he does….so if i have no brain…where does that come from ha. So ladies don’t let guys say that stuff to you and just accept it. Guys don’t let ladies say all guys are a certain way. Oh and there are alot of guys in my school i could beat down a few are even scared of me and i’m not that big. =]. its amusing. don’t stereotype people!!!!!!
Nicole May 11th, 2009 at 22:12One of the best comments so far Nicole, thank you. Balanced and appreciative of the realities. Neither sex is better or worse even though we are not the same and our differences make the world a more interesting place.
Max Howell May 12th, 2009 at 10:29As today, there are, on average, differences. Aside from the obvious physical ones, it’s all about realising where those differences come from. Are they biological, are they cultural, are we socialized into them?
Julia July 16th, 2009 at 2:30This is an endless debate and there’s no consesus from the scientific community. But observing how drastically they variate in time and space, in my opinion, makes you realise how big the influence of society is.
Are women born more emotional? Or are they just usually raised to become so, starting from very early childhood when they tend to be exposed to softer shapes and warmer colours?
Leaning on biology (evolutionary or not) on the other hand, as long as you give reasonable arguments, is NOT sexist.
” I believe, on average, women have a more developed emotional side, because…” is not a sexist statement.
Sexism is found when you bound a sex to a certain role or dogmatically link it to certain characteristics, ignoring the individual.
” It’s women’s role to do the cooking and cleaning” and “women are illogical creatures” are, YES, sexist statements.
An even more profound sexism, leaning on chauvinism, exists when because of your idea of genders and their roles, you come to the conclusion that one of the sexes is the better one and/or should dominate and oppress the other.
It’s the same process as racism, if you thing about it.
Ha, sexism nowadays is more against MEN! Think of it, how many times have u heard a woman on tv commenting on how women make better parents, or are better at certain jobs, bringing in maternal and biological arguments into it, making arrogant sweeping antimen statements, yet if a guy were to say anything like this hed be slapped with a lawsuit for sexism. If a woman wears some rediculously revealing top, and catches a guy looking she can claim sexism in the workplace, but why the fuck would u wear revealing clothes if u didnt want guys to look, their excuse is because they wanted to feel confident, yeh and the only way you can possibly do that is to get your tits out……..sure! As for guys being less emotional thats bullcrap, the idea that men have to be emotionless is a woman created concept which was made to ensure men could better protect women and later to ensure that men do the robot like routine of work while some women enjoy being a stay at home wife, again if a man decided to do this and let the woman do all the work hed be classed as lazy.
Yes i know most women work, but some do just expect the guy to do all the work! As for housework, please most men nowadays when they are living with women do ALL the housework because the women dont like dirt, well neither do us men but why should we be expected to do all the dirty jobs just because we are men, also men are usually the ones doing the cooking too nowadays! Also if men work in stereotyped womens jobs such as cleaner or nurse they are viewed negatively by women, yet if a woman works as a stereotypical mans job i.e. in army they are hailed as feminist heroes. More over women complain alot about the male chauvanist pig but they often use this to their advantage, they can easily manipulate men to get what they want, its not illegal to virtually be showing all cleavage but, a man cant do the same coz a man cant exactly where revealing clothes that show his penis without him being arrested. Women also refuse to accept responsibility more than men, sadly i know alot of young woman who see cheating as acceptable, blaming their bf’s/husbands for not treating them properly, or claiming they were ‘confused’ or upset, which part exactly is confusing the blowjob or the riding up and down on another mans cock? LOL. Women also use emotional blackmail, for example you might start a relationship both agreeing no children, but once u r emotionally attached they will suddenly hit you with ultimatums of a kid or break up, not taking your feelings into any consideration. Furthermore women are more self obsorbed than men needing make up and beauty products that play to their vanity, claiming this is for men, but come on honestly if ure a guy you dont give a shit, its more of a nuissance having to wait for women to put it on, plus im of the opionion that ALL makeup just makes women look like sluts, its just completely unnecessary.
Furthermore they make out that whats on the inside is what counts but their actions usually say otherwise. Furthermore men act like dicks bcoz they r conditioned to do so by women, if women didnt respond so positively we wouldnt have so many dickhead guys, or indeed vain METROSEXUALS, its called positive reinforcement! I will never understand how the same guys who try and act overly aggressive also fuck about with makeup and beauty products, lol, to me the two dont really go together.
Another thing is women also are given unfair advantages in family courts again playing off the view that just because they r a woman they therefore must be a better parent than the father, which is utter bullshit. Yet i dont see any womem campaigning for equal rights here, they dont seem to mind when they have more rights than men.
Furthermore in tough cases such as rape cases the woman tends to automatically nowadays be believed and the guy demonised before any proper enquiries are made, now obviously women who claim rape should NEVER be dismissed as lying because rape is a terrible thing and therefore it is inconceivable that a woman would lie about such a thing, but on the other hand, women sadly just like men, CAN LIE, so conclusions should be reserved until the full facts are present!
In conclusion Men are alot more emotionally deep than women, its just most women are too blinded by narcisism to register that guys have feelings. I say that men are more emotionally deep because apart from the new brand of METROSEXUAL men, most men are not vain and dont fuck about with beauty products, most men do not bitch about other people constantly and repeat the same shit again and again and again, most men are considerate enough to ask how a womans day has been etc and listen, whereas most women just want to talk and are not interested in a guys day, despite the false stereotype that women make good listeners. Women also manipulate men more by rediculously slutty clothing, and lastly it is deemed ok in society for women to be sexist towards men but not the other way around, and when women have better rights than men in certain areas, where is the campaigning for equal rights then.
Also the idea of separate sentencing for women serial killers or men who hit women as opposed to men who hit men, suggests that a womans life is worth more than a mans in the eyes of the law. Dont get me wrong im not pro hitting women, thats rediculous, but surely the idea behind it being deemed worse than a guy hitting a guy is the idea of physical weakness, but yet thats not taken into consideration if its a big guy hitting a weaker guy, so just thinking outside of the box this seems sexist also, tho obviously my point here is any violent act is wrong and should be treated equally regardless of sex!
Anonymous January 15th, 2010 at 9:23