Chavs: The Plague of Britain
At the bottom of this article, there’s a great little tale about some trouble-seeking chavs who get their comeupance.
I must confess, currently I absolutely abhor chavs, I feel a rudimentry, violent hatred for the scum.
Milton Keynes is a great city, out of all the places I’ve lived, I like it the best. I’ve lived in Croydon, Suffolk, Herefordshire, Bristol and Aldershot. Actually I liked rural Herefordshire best, but I can’t live there yet, there’s not enough employment opportunity.
It is great for driving (no traffic, fast roads), cycling (cycle paths everywhere), walking (plenty of parks and green areas), shopping (essentuials and luxuries), going out, and more little things, like the way the countryside is never far away.
It is getting too chavvy though.
Achieving nothing of any use, they fail their way through school with an end goal of living off benefits to fuel their careers in graffiti.
My taxes pay for these useless 12 through 19 year olds to litter and vandalise the town. But worst of all is the way they hang around in abusive, intimidating groups in public discourses. Even a bunch of 12 year olds can be intimidating if you’re by yourself and there’s 20 of them. I think the thing is I don’t understand them. It doesn’t fit when you see a 12 year old, smoking, and wearing a “what yer looking at?” expression. That kind of behaviour is just doesn’t fit with how I think about people, what’s to understand? Lack of understanding leads to uncertainty; I walk a different route.
I blame society and the Government, these louts have no respect, no work-ethic and nothing to do. Someplace, sometime our education system failed us and nowadays we spawn endless numbers of these good for nothing shits.
I feel somewhat ashamed that I felt better after reading the story I linked to. I think I have a problem, or perhaps my intolerance makes me no better than them. Whatever, I can’t stand it, I’m moving country, or maybe to some quiet rural spot.
I’m not in the UK, but i’ve seen plenty of anti-chav sites. I have to say, just from photos of them, I had the same impression that you’ve developed from first-hand knowledge. Where’s an elephant gun when you need one?
if it makes you feel better, it’s not any different in germany either. just that i could understand their pervert german slang better than the average chav’s english.
i just wonder wether i never noticed them as a kid or this subculture really just recently developed…
blaming the government won’t help much, though. this is a real homemade-problem. society changed quite a bit, most parents can’t afford spending as much time with their kids as we used to enjoy quite a few years ago. kids are frustrated with the outlook for their life and the media helps bombarding them with bad news and showing things they can’t afford.
whatsoever, i believe in darwinism and therefore it can only be a temporary problem
cheers,
muesli
thts ded gd… all my mates thhink a chav but im not. i dnt smoke or n e thing lyk tht. thy jus say tht cos th way i spell and i lyk chavs. not my fault i cnt spell =[.
thnx
x
Aaaa, thanks for the kiss
give me just two seconds as PM and i’ll end chavs for ever.
the answer?
work or die.
I’m from MK - and it’s not unique unfortunately the scum is gaining as it reproduces at a rate about 2x the rate of people who contribute to society. Most Chavs are up the duff and on benefits by 17 yrs old whereas most working/professional couples have their first baby in their early thirties. Also the chavettes will have had several kids by the time they are in their twenties whereas the working/professional couples will stop at probably 2 kids by the time they’re in their late 30’s. Therefore Chavscum have twice the amount of progeny brought up in the benefit culture being supported in the future by half the amount of working progeny of working/professional culture people. Something will give
Hi i really dont likr chavs they give people of my age a bad name i mean whats the point in being a chave smoking drinking taking drugs your just throughing your life away if your one.I am a respetabel 13 year old gir i dont smoke drink and have never seen drugs never mind tacking them. i have a life and goals for it i mean am an army cadet for the royal artillery and when am older am going to join the army lets just say its better than hanging around n street corners
ERE TWATS LISTEN UP ALL U GOFF RAGGERS, CHAVZ R MINT , I AM 1 ND A FINK YZ R ALL BASTARDS TALKIN BOUT US LYK DAT !!! A MEAN YZ R ALL STUCK UP YR OWN ARSES 2 RELISE WOT LIFES ABOUT MAN, POSH BASTARDS YE !!! AV YZ ERD OV DEVVO ??? EE TH BIZZ MAN, PROPPA GUD!!! YZ WANNA GT SUM CIDER DWN YR NECKS ND CHILL A BIT !!!!!!!!!
Yay, I always hoped to attract this kind of comment
for the chavette twat SPEAK ENGLISH OR FUCK OFF OUT OF THE COUNTRY!!
Can’t say I feel the same anymore. I look at them and think they are pretty sad, and it annoys me that I basically pay for them to sit around taking the piss out of me. But I don’t really relate to my statement any longer, which I think is a good thing.
well wtf youve just all sast and slated a whole generation because of the way the dress and perhaps if the government helped these kids with a decent eductaion instead of excluding them and putting them on the streets with no future to work for then theyed be contributing.
do you know how much help their isnt for kids with parents on benifits, nowhere for them to go and they cant pay for higher education.
they wear trackies for comfort and because they are cheap but when is someone going to help them earn the money to pay for better. i keep hearing 17, pregnant, dole, council flat, what right do you have to decide if that girl is worthy she could have been raped orr had a job you dont know. i am fully aware that there are wasters but its discrimination to call them all chavs i see plenty of goths and greebos fraudently claming benefits.
benefits are there to help people and most people are perfectly legitimate.
max howell with a name like tht u think theyre sad raggos mate my mates in pen ennit but on road im clever nd i goin sumwhere but in the mean time i gonna turn ma dole in drugs to sell make more money then whoy ill b top o the tree m8 u need ta b careful u dnt get clapped up
It annoys me that I work hard, and yet some people basically do nothing all day and I’m paying for it.
But yeah I am guilty of generalising, and as I said two comments up, I don’t feel the same about all this crap anymore.
I’ve no idea what you are saying in the second comment, seriously, use punctuation.
Erm, for everyone who has any sympathy for the chavs saying that they genuinely need benefits, they’re misunderstood, etc I can confidently say that that is just a load of “shizzle”
There are plenty of job oppertunities around which means that they could be spending what they are earning and not eating up benefits
It’s not that they can’t AFFORD to go for further education, they just can’t be arsed. I can say this looking straight in their faces because I was brought up in a council estate in “da hood”, fincancially disadvantaged but I am currently a healthy (almost) straight A student in 6th Form working towards a place for a degree in Computer Science at Cambridge. These Chavs need to be educated and taught to CARE, and if they have crappy family backgrounds, a) these crappy parents have no right to be parents and the government should regulate, or b) schools and government policies should educate them
I have to completly agree with schools for excluding crappy students at school. They will be a distraction to others, and in most cases, intellectual deficiencies will not let them progress too far into their academic progress, but they should be rounded up and placed in a special helping institution away from their shitty parents who are probably at a pub getting pissed at 1 in the afternoon and getting in punchups
My parents don’t get “chav” benefits but they probably get less than these parents who live on benefits, (I mean like ULTRA LOW) which is why my current location is a ghetto slum, but that hasn’t stopped them bringing me up propper, THERE IS NO EXCUSE BECUASE I CAN RELATE TO THESE SCUM I’VE BEEN THERE DONE THAT
so jodie and chavette you can both stfu you fecking chavs you’re both ignorant and naive and just use shitty circumstances as reason for chavs not progressing anywhere in life, I can imagine you both now looking like your scummy peers, baby blue rip-off trackies from head to toe, massive plastic gold sprayed hoops a metre in diameter from argos, huge belly hanging out, and sequins on your fat lardy arses saying random shiit like pineapple I mean cmmon man wtf
And when you post, please don’t try to talk like you’re from “da hood”, i is from da reel getto frm da endz of norf weezy n me n my crw wil com fukin batta u lyk shiiiiitt,
i sincerly appologise to the normal viewers of this board, I was a bit aggrivated and I promise not to post any more blinglish here as long as I live
I would like to add for security that I am no “goff” “mosher” “grunja” I generally like to go with the “gangsta” fashion, listening to hip hop and R&B because that’s who i am BUT IM NO CHAV SO PLEASE DON’T MISUNDERSTAND
CHAVS are the scum of the earth. They cant spell they are ignorant. Bad fashion sense ,they are little people with little minds who live in run down rat infested council estates. They try and live and dress beyond their means. which means the light bill will get passed by so some stupid ass chavette can wear some designer label they cant afford. They are sad scumbags who have to take a piss at others to make themselves feel good. I am sick to death of these less than human wastes of space. Most if not all were born poor. will live poor and die poor! How anyone can be proud to call themselves a chav is beyond my total understanding of reason. WHY ON EARTH..WOULD you chavette want to be proud of being poor uneducated lazy shiftless cider drinking cant afford anything because i rather sponge off those who do work have to wear cheap gold rings and burb..to think and act like im somebody cool wastes of space? your sad disgusting and should be wiped off the face of the earth. I AM NOT A GOFF mosher or fucking skater . i am a gothmetaler notice the correct spelling who is pissed off at your stupid blind reasons to hate us. AND as for thinking your from the QUOTE ON QUOTE from the hood or anything else like that .. that is shit if you want to visit a real hood i should send you to my native land USA LA. i would drive you to compton or maybe watts perhaps south central where there are real gangbangers that would send you back to your cheap council estates crying like a fucking twat you are back to mommy! tho i dont condone gangbanging in any way shape or form but those people are not playing. its not cool or funny. all you two balled bitch chavs who think your so tough i fucking dare you to spend an hour in one of those HOODS in LA. you wouldnt last a few mins.
Oh please learn to paragraph and punctuate your text.
THATS all you have to say??? your a looser.. lOOSER. i bet your a fucking chav. fucking looser. did you notice? that there are no fucking hate goth sites? or hate metalers site? only hate chav sites. why is this do you ask? BECAUSE SHIT FOR BRAINS CHAVS ARE THE MOST HATED MOTHERFUCKERS WHO ANNOY EVERYONE IN THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD. WORLDWIDE EVEN!!!!!!! ALL THE FUCKING WAY FROM THE USA TO FUCKING IRAN. CUNTS YOU ARE. YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DO TO FUCKING WANNABE GANGMEMBERS IN THE USA? THEY FUCKING SHOOT THEM THATS WHAT. HAHHAHHAH . AND being hispanic i can honestly say your all fucking pondlife. chavs =lazy=twats=have babies to collect off state=scum. GET WITH IT YOUR TRASH GO FUCKING STICK YOUR HEAD UP YOUR MOTHERS TWAT AND CRAWL BACK BECAUSE YOUR NOT WANTED!!!!! NEXXXXXXXXXXXT!!!
ALL CHAVS DIE im sick of paying for your life. GO GET A FUCKING JOB YOU COCKSUCKERS!!!!!
[...] Man who urinated on dying woman is jailed for three years [...]
SLUniverse Forums October 27th, 2007 at 10:54I’m Lee Fist, 28, from Stoke, and I reckon you people give us so-called ‘chavs’ too much shit. So what if I want to go out on Friday and get hammered and maybe have a fight. Me and my boys are just a bunch of lads doing what we want. That’s why I’ve set up a blog to let you all know what I’m all about. It’s time people started hearing what I’ve got to say. Come and have a read of Lee Fist: Diary of a Modern Man http://leefist.blogspot.com/
Fucking Die Chavs!!!!!! you dont have to be a chav to get drunk you twat!! i get drunk sometimes but im not a fucking chav!!! i am a scene kid! CHAVS DONT HAVE FASION !! Skinny Jeans are Fasion Checkered Tops!! Studded Belts Thats what im talking about
go on then kill sum chavs i dare u all to go out and kill a chav ppl like u r always on a bout wat u gonna do to chavs but i never here about chavs been killed and ive never had sum1 cum up 2 me startin on me cuz am a chav and before u say it i dont fight with 10 ov ma mates on 1 person i was brought up to fight proply
ps thanks 4 da 15grand car of da dole
u know what i came from Dagenham london im 16 years old going 17.IAM NOT A CHAV. im as about as opposite from a chav as you can get and i grew up around chavs and wannabe gangsters.
just a clue to my differences i wear normal jeans, all stars and plain t shirts or long sleeve shirts. i have long hair (which ive been threatened for so many times)
not fuckin baggy pants. 50 cent? huh fuck thatled zeppelin and jackie wilson are the best. its strange having grown up in such an environment and come out different from the standard scum is amazing because peer pressure to become a chav has been there 4 me the whole time. WHY THE FUCK DO SO MANY PEOPLE FOLLOW FUCKIN HIP HOP CULTURE FOR FUCKS SAKE? be different from popular thug culture, in dagenham it is not pretty what we should do is throw these white wannabe gangstas into downtown new york or la and see how long they would last for. enough said
i agree with u johnno!!! y the fuck do people try so hard to fit in that they have 2 become fuckin anti-social manslags with a vocabulary that dont go past the words INIT! or BREDRIN! they dont give a fuck about anybody else n dont have no respect for anybody! well you know wot all you chavs…u all think this world is all about takin drugs, smokin, drinkin n avin sex with just about any girl u see! well i hope all these hard drugs n ur slaggy nature gives u a world of pain CUZ THATS WOT U ALL FUCKIN DESERVE! u fuckin take the piss the lot of ya u fuckin chav scum!
all those who wear baseball caps should be shot on sight!!!!
cHAV ARENT GOOD AT GRAFFITI , INFACT MOST GRAFFITI ARTISTS ARE WELL EDUCATED PROFRESIONAL MODERN ARTISTS , GO ON YOUTRUBE , TYPE IN OTICK , HES A good one , then type in banksy , and tell me if theyre chavs. im fuckin sick of pelple thinking that u havge to lookj like a shitbg to be abl to do mpoder art…
chavs are shit at graffiti , u need o be good at art to do it.
the rest of the text about chavs is fantastic! , just the part where u thnk all those fabulous standing-out graffitis are done by fucking shit bags , it makes me absalutely sick.
run p to any chav and ask them to do graffiti after buying the book ‘ Graffiti World ‘ , read about them in the book and then tell a chav to do some. Good luck lol , but remember , the rest of the text was good -> I HATE CHAVS TO THE BONE , THEYRE TRYING TO DESTRYO THE THEME OF GRAFFITI/MODERN ART.
i think we should just be humans , no chavs , n goths m i mean why cant we all just get along ffs… just sad fightin over Brand of ur nickers ffs..
hyaa i fink evry1 shud be CHAVVS:P and NO FUKIN GOTHS OR EMOS!! HAHA…LMAO!!
all yuu goths and emos go and slit ure wrists and die!!!!!!!!!!!!
chavs are good at graffiti!! actually
Yeah, they can spell the word gay really well can’t they? you fucking retard.
Also, the correct word is “the” not “da”, what the fuck is wrong with you? do you speak in text speech also?
Sooner or later everyone is going to get extremely fed up with the situation of chavs and eventually bit by bit the English public will say enough is enough! We are a very polite nation, how many times have you been on a bus where a chav is blarring out shitty music on thier mobile phone and everyone just hums and sighs and gives dirty looks but never says anything, then one person eventually has a go and then everyone will chip in, ticking time bomb I think.
What we need is another war where we can send them all off to be cannon fodder, I would love to witness the grand theft auto generation trying actualy combat, you would all probably get shot in the leg then look for health packs on the floor.
Thank you Alex, best comment yet
And best comment for ages. This post is almost my most commented, but the quality of responses is unbearably intolerant and unintelligible.
I agree, i hate chavs loads round where i live, always have to walk alternate streets to get to the bus stop to go to WORK!!! yes work lol,
i hate knowin i pay tax for them to drink white lightening and drink special brew.
i have a question, how do chavvy families watch jeremy kyle show on a 42 inch plasma T.V ???? anyone want to answer me feel free.
oh and a little joke for you chav haters
whats the most confusing day of the year for a chav?…… fathers day
lol
I read this at boing boing, and thought it was both excellent and inspiring:
They don’t realise how stupid they look, and that everybody else is just ridiculing them.
By dressing like that and/or behaving like that, they are just playing straight into peoples hands who want to put them down, laugh at them and make fun of them, and they are giving off hugely negative connotations about themselves.
I mean surely getting used to the idea that every shop security guard automatically thinks they are going to steal something, and watches them like a hawk every time they go into a store to buy something, and also getting the same treatment from the police, constantly being stopped and searched etc, and then not being allowed into any even half-respectable venue is bound to severely damage their self-confidence after a while.
If you’re standing in a que in the bank or something and someone comes in dressed like that, everybody looks at them like they are total scum, constant treatment like this would totally destroy any normal person and make them feel like total shit.
A lot of them will wake up one morning though and suddenly realise that they are trash basically, and that they have no education, no money, no job, no future, no prospects, no nothing.
Nobody in their right mind could be genuinely happy just sponging benefits their entire lives, i mean their options are pretty grim and limited.
I don’t really judge young teenagers though when i see them dressed like that, or hear them talking like they’re from Jamaica or something.
For a lot of them this is just a phaase, and i would tend to be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt a bit more. They’re only kids at the end of the day and i can never understand why some people possess such a venomous hatred for them.
However i can’t stand adults who dress and act like that and have no desire to better themselves.
Every time i see a working-class person walking down the street with a moustache and stupid swallow tattoos on their forearms i feel like going up and to them shaking them violently.
Jewellery also annoys me, and observing people smoking brings about ripples of anger as well.
Oh, and don’t forget the grandiose names they call their offspring, priceless!
1. Devvo is a character on fat-pie.com made up to take the piss out of chavs… He is not real and the guy who created him is not a chav.
2. Yes it is your fault you can’t spell, it’s your fault you can’t be bothered to learn to spell… There’s a difference between dyslexia (a mental block on spelling) to not being able to be arsed to learn.
3. Not all “non chavs” are “goffs”…
ppl always say not all chavs are young working class which is true sum are posh but if u think about it most workin class kids are chav and thts true before u all startin rantin, iam from a mainly workin class area wiv a big estate and pretty much evryone wears trakies litsens to rave and takes drugs and gets pissed and beat each uva up because there nothin for us to look forward to and soicitys just forgot about us, and then uv got pussys all over the internet and im the media sayin we shud be killed, locked up and callin us mindless animals no wonder we dont like the rest of soicioty lol
Apt comment from Oli there. Perhaps one of the best in the thread.
Though it’s a bit chicken and the egg.
I am 21, i am a university student, both my parents have always been on benefits and i grew up on a council estate, i was a chav because if you grow up like that then, if you want any friends you go down a certain route.
I was never really like that though and thats why i got out of it. the level of stupidity and senseless violence apparent within my friends was astonishing. anyone can go to university or better theselves if they want, the government gives grants to anyone, personal development is what benefits is supposed to be for.
It’s quite simple chavs don’t want to help themselves. The government does more than enough for them and they throw it back in their faces. The only way to stop them is to stop being the softest and most pathetic country in the world. I’d like to see a chav start a fight and nick stuff in the middle east. They’d cut his fucking hands and cock off.
The rise of the Chav is the inevitable consequence of a country that actually allows a group of people to be the biggest strain on the police, NHS (injuries/stabbings), housing (council estates - free housing), fire service (arson attacks), prison service (which should be profitable not cost money - free labour) and generally makes everyones lives a misery.
AND PAYS THEM BENEFITS TO DO SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’d like to see a study on the life of the average chav
How much money in benefitts, prison costs criminal damage, and housing costs as well as NHS and police strain and so on and so forth throughout their lives would they cost the tax payer.
60 years of adult life, must run up to nearly a million or more.
Amazing - that’s not even taking into account the human misery they inflict.
it’s got to stop
I know I’m responding to some pretty old comments here and therefore I’m pretty much flogging a dead horse, but I have to take issue with all the people who apologise on the behalf of chavs for their rotten behaviour.
Firstly, the excuse that the chavs intimidation of others, foul language, mindless violence and vandalism is all down to boredom and there being nothing to do is absolute rubbish. What the youth of today has to play with whilst growing up, is generally the equal of, and often the better than what kids of previous generations had. The young of the eighties, seventies and earlier decades had pretty much the same streets to play in and walls to sit/walk on, yet they didn’t need national ‘youth projects’ to keep them from going round, smoking, insulting members of the public and making life a misery for others!
Secondly, some people seem to think that when we complain about chavs we’re putting down a whole generation of children. Last time I looked, chavs meant chavs, not a label for a generation (such as generation X or Y). The fact that most people seem to associate the word chav with the entire youth of today to the point that they can confuse it with all kids, to me says something about the number of youths who are chavs! It’s not as if they are a small minority either - scallys, neds, townies, etc. every place in the UK originally had it’s own word for violent, abusive yobs, rather like how many different languages have their own word for rain, or the moon and you can see them in pretty much any major settlement in Britain. Chavs, or kids who behave like chavs, are pervasive and widespread, not some small group that we have started viewing the rest of the young as.
Furthermore, there are those that in some way feel guilty for the chavs, perhaps even responsible in some way because they are virtually all from poorer backgrounds. (Well I’ve never known middle class chavs!)
This however is rubbish, as demonstrated by the comments by Matthew just above mine. Every British child receives a free state education, and a loan on generous terms (no real interest to pay - can be paid off when you can afford, or even written off if you don’t begin to earn above a certain threshold). This and the comparative abundance of jobs that are available (credit crunch and the ‘technical’ recession notwithstanding) mean that it’s perfectly possible, for a child of any background to get into a well paid, secure job provided that they put sufficient effort into their studies/career.
But what do most chavs do? They don’t care about school - the government had to criminalise truancy to get them to turn up! Anyone who has met a chav will know how they behave. I for one have seen the decline of behavioural standards at school just by comparing pupils from my own school year with those a couple of years below mine. Okay, so badly behaved school kids are nothing new you might think, and there have always been people saying the kids of their day are the worst they’ve seen.
But when the current standards of(mis)behaviour are considered it’s clear that this is something different altogether: kids routinely swear at teachers, threaten them or even assault them. Many of them smoke and have sex at an early age. Few, if any, show any kind of deference or respect to a teacher (or indeed any traditional person in authority.). I haven’t bothered to looked for any, but there will almost certainly be relevant statistics about this to back it up. It’s abundantly clear (to me at any rate) that these are not the actions of a struggling, misrepresented poor whose woes and suffering are not being understood, but those of a lazy bunch, who don’t believe it’s their job to look after themselves and improve their own lot. If they really were, then why would they need to smoke and be rude and worry other people, when they know what they are doing is at best disrespectful and unpleasant?
You could say pretty much the same about benefits too. Before anyone accuses me of peddling a stereotype, consider that the govt. figures for benefit claimants are the highest they have been for awhile and that many of those claiming have been doing so for a long time. Job seeker’s allowance is intended to be temporary, stopgap aid, not a wage! And judging by the rise in the amount of incapacity benefit claimants, we must feel sorry for the hordes of people who have suddenly ‘developed’ dyslexia or other (easily faked) mental disorders.
Again, these people could quite easily find work. Even if the jobs aren’t great, there’s a minimum wage and the conditions will be a lot better than what people in some parts of the world work in (yet they don’t feel the need to behave ‘anti-socially’ either..). A decent and deserving poor person would be working hard to try and improve their lot in life, not finding excuses to receive tax money from honest, employed people in place of having a job!
In fact, there isn’t really much that’s decent about the chav character at all. They seem to take a perverse pleasure in their causing of misery to others. Getting an ASBO is seen as a badge of honour, people who work are seen as odd, or just stupid. Everyone in the chav community tries to get by on benefits because to do without would make them stand out and why should they bother working anyway when they can get money for acting like a spasticated person for a moment?
I was in a fast food restaurant when some chavs asked an employee there why he was working there when he could just claim benefits or “deal some coka?”. Others said they wouldn’t dare work there. Obviously, these are rubbish jobs, but beggars can’t be choosers and a decent person would take any possible line of work to make themselves better off, not suggest benefit fraud or drug dealing!
This is the worst part of chav culture - it’s become so prevalent amongst the working class that it has become self-reinforcing and the norm for large sections of the community.
That’s the darkside of socialism I suppose. If you give out help unconditionally, you shelter the lazy or unwilling from the consequences of their sloth. There’s nothing charitable in helping a bad person. An unwillingness to be tough on kids when they try to be disrespectful tough on us, does not make our children happier, or society a gentler and less violent one, it merely lets loose those who enjoy causing havoc and misery for others, without having given them cause to do any different.
Worst of all these people instead of being grateful for our charity come to expect it and consider it completely righteous for them to be afforded a free lunch. In the meantime, misguided politically correct fools spout more gush about this being a sign that our society is not sufficiently caring, or that the decent people have somehow brought this out of them. No wrong can be laid at the chavs door. The madness and injustice of it all is tear-inducing.
Hopefully chavs, and other problems with our culture today can eventually build to the point that the British people will act - perhaps then we may enjoy a national catharsis and be happy again.
(Hell if you read all of that you should probably be happy anyway =P)
Jesus wept, I really did get going there didn’t I.
Oh well, look out for my upcoming novel soon then I suppose ;P